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273571 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2021‑05‑04 flattening a large slab
We recently redid our kitchen.  There is a small island in the kitchen, the top
of which is about 3’ x 3’.  A friend gave us a large slab of beech to use as the
top of the island.  The slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5” (it tapers from
one end to the other).  It is also bowed by about 1/2” across the narrow
dimension.

My first shameful thought was to rip it into 3 12” strips and run it through a
tailed apprentice to flatten it then glue it back together.  But the thought
passed and I decided do it the Galoot way both for the experience and for the
satisfaction of the top still being a single piece.

The challenges are several (at least for me):

- I have never done any stock prep by hand (I have mostly stuck to joinery and
finish work with hand tools).  I know how to do it in theory, but have zero
experience.
- I have to both flatten the faces and make them (more-or-less) parallel.  All
the “flatten your bench top” videos I watched don’t have to deal with this.
- I need to remove a lot of wood.  The bow is about 1/2” so to flatten it I have
to remove a total of 1” (1/2 from the top face and 1/2 from the bottom).  In
addition, it tapers by 1/2" from end to end, so that’s another big chunk I have
to remove from the whole width.

I have turned my crappy Stanley “Handyman” #4 into a scrub plane by grinding the
iron in an arc, https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219531, and started
in (obviously just barely):

https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219532
and
https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219533

Ignore the unspeakable object in the background (it doesn’t belong to me,
really!)

My current plan is to:
a) more-or-less flatten the convex face with the scrub plane
b) flip it over and do the same to the concace face.
c) mark the desired thickness and plane it to thickness.

Any words of advice?  The thought occurs to me that even doing it by hand
perhaps I should rip it into 2-3 strips so that I can alternate the grain when I
glue it back together.  On the other hand, it is kind-of quarter sawn because
the slab went through the middle of the tree.

Finally, the front knob is missing from my #4 (it currently borrowing one from
my “good” #4).  Anyone have a knob they would like to sell?

thanks,
andrew
273572 Curt Seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew asks:
> A friend gave us a large slab of beech to use as the top of the island.
The slab is is about
> 36” by 45” by 3-3.5” (it tapers from one end to the other).  It is also
bowed by about 1/2”
> across the narrow dimension. ... Any words of advice?

Good evening, Andrew,
That's a lot of wasting to be doing with a plane. You might consider a
hewing axe/hatchet. This has been covered by Prof. Follansbee, and an
excellent reason to buy another tool if you don't already have a collection
of these.
https://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/2021/04/25/sharpening-a-hewing-hatchet/
should get you started
273573 Chuck Taylor 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew,

You wrote:

===========
A friend gave us a large slab of beech to use as the top of the island.  The
slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5” (it tapers from one end to the other).  It
is also bowed by about 1/2” across the narrow dimension.
...
- I need to remove a lot of wood.  The bow is about 1/2” so to flatten it I have
to remove a total of 1” (1/2 from the top face and 1/2 from the bottom).  In
addition, it tapers by 1/2" from end to end, so that’s another big chunk I have
to remove from the whole width.
....
Any words of advice?  The thought occurs to me that even doing it by hand
perhaps I should rip it into 2-3 strips so that I can alternate the grain when I
glue it back together.  On the other hand, it is kind-of quarter sawn because
the slab went through the middle of the tree.
...
==============

I would recommend ripping it in half lengthwise through the pith (or close to
it), and flatten each half separately. That would cut the amount of wood to
remove essentially in half. Then glue the two halves back together.

Don't forget the winding sticks!

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle USA
273574 Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
On Tue, 4 May 2021 at 14:59, Chuck Taylor via groups.io
 wrote:
> I would recommend ripping it in half lengthwise through the pith (or close to
it), and flatten each half separately. That would cut the amount of wood to
remove essentially in half. Then glue the two halves back together.

The pith is an unstable part of the wood, shouldn't it be discarded in
the process?

Chris
273575 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
+1 on Chuck.  I might even take a total of an inch out of the middle to get rid
of that pesky area that wants to be unstable.

Ed Minch
273579 Kirk Eppler 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 7:41 PM Andrew Heybey  wrote:

> We recently redid our kitchen.  There is a small island in the kitchen,
> the top of which is about 3’ x 3’.  A friend gave us a large slab of beech
> to use as the top of the island.  The slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5”
> (it tapers from one end to the other).  It is also bowed by about 1/2”
> across the narrow dimension.
>
> Wow, for being on the list since 1997, you have not succumbed to the too
many tool choices that some of us have.  But seriously, moving up to a
bigger plane may help.

What little slab work I have done has greatly benefited from using a 5 or
5-1/2 diagonally, alternating diagonals. I’ve used my winding sticks and a
longer straightedge to figure out the highpoints, remove them, and repeats.
 ( I have a friend who built a router device for this, kills me to see his
FB feed). The extra mass if the -1/2 is a nice touch.  A big wooden plane
could be used as well.

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA, who was again without Internet for 8 hours
yesterday, and only calls and texts on the cell phone, like some 3rd world
country, again.


-- 
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk
273583 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
First thought is to consider how stable it will remain.

Do you need to add some sort of battens, or dovetail some supports in to the
base to keep it flat after you’ve worked on it?

Next thought - Old time folk wouldn’t necessarily flatten the underside.  If it
is to rest on bearers across the top of the unit - then just provide trenches /
rebates where the bearers run, and leave the excess timber in place.

That gets us to the top. 

Now - the reason for using a slab must be that you want the single piece look.
Ass soon as you rip it to reglue, then you lose that, so I can see why you would
want to flatten it.  The attraction of a large slab, in one piece, is not to be
given up lightly - that slab of walnut we just looked at? - criminal to cut that
up. even if you reglue it together afterward.
So we need it to remain stable, otherwise we’d just rip it and reglue.  but it
decided to cup whilst drying.
Will it do so again?
What’s its moisture content now?

can you leave it in the kitchen to acclimatise for a year?   a month?  couple of
months?

Will you be doing this every 6 months?  Is it going to split as it dries
further?   How do you minimise the chances of splitting?


More questions than answers here - sorry.  Apart from ‘don’t bother with the
underside’ - even to the extent of running a rebate around it and fixing a skirt
to hide the gaps…


Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot.  where the sun has decided to shine now I’m indoors after
it’s done ’sprinkling’ on me



> On 4 May 2021, at 03:41, Andrew Heybey  wrote:
> 
> We recently redid our kitchen.  There is a small island in the kitchen, the
top of which is about 3’ x 3’.  A friend gave us a large slab of beech to use as
the top of the island.  The slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5” (it tapers
from one end to the other).  It is also bowed by about 1/2” across the narrow
dimension.
> 
> My first shameful thought was to rip it into 3 12” strips and run it through a
tailed apprentice to flatten it then glue it back together.  But the thought
passed and I decided do it the Galoot way both for the experience and for the
satisfaction of the top still being a single piece.
> 
> The challenges are several (at least for me):
> 
> - I have never done any stock prep by hand (I have mostly stuck to joinery and
finish work with hand tools).  I know how to do it in theory, but have zero
experience.
> - I have to both flatten the faces and make them (more-or-less) parallel.  All
the “flatten your bench top” videos I watched don’t have to deal with this.
> - I need to remove a lot of wood.  The bow is about 1/2” so to flatten it I
have to remove a total of 1” (1/2 from the top face and 1/2 from the bottom).
In addition, it tapers by 1/2" from end to end, so that’s another big chunk I
have to remove from the whole width.
> 
> I have turned my crappy Stanley “Handyman” #4 into a scrub plane by grinding
the iron in an arc, https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219531, and
started in (obviously just barely):
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
273586 scottg <scottg@s...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Richard is absolutely right of course.
Flattening both sides is a machine approach.
  You can shim up / relieve the bottom easy enough.
There is no bonus at all for a finished bottom.

If you are doing it by hand let it look a little like it was done by hand.
There is no bonus in copying K-Mart with hand tools.

A Handyman #4 will do if you have to.
A more solid jack plane with a goodly camber on the razor sharp iron 
will hog more chips faster though.

Use your winding sticks to see where its the worst.
  Go diagonal or even straight across to start.

No time to squinge along and look at shavings etc. Dig in with a will 
and hog some thick chips fast!
When you get closer its time to slow down and use a longer plane.
   yours scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
273587 Thomas Conroy 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew Heybey wrote:
 "We recently redid our kitchen. There is a small island in the kitchen, the top
of which is about 3’ x 3’. A friend gave us a large slab of beech to use as the
top of the island. The slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5” (it tapers from one
end to the other). It is also bowed by about 1/2” across the narrow
dimension.....
"- I need to remove a lot of wood. The bow is about 1/2” so to flatten it I have
to remove a total of 1” (1/2 from the top face and 1/2 from the bottom). In
addition, it tapers by 1/2" from end to end, so that’s another big chunk I have
to remove from the whole width.....
"Any words of advice? The thought occurs to me that even doing it by hand
perhaps I should rip it into 2-3 strips so that I can alternate the grain when I
glue it back together. On the other hand, it is kind-of quarter sawn because the
slab went through the middle of the tree.

"Finally, the front knob is missing from my #4 (it currently borrowing one from
my “good” #4). Anyone have a knob they would like to sell?"


Hi, Andrew,
How long is it since the slab was milled? Getting satisfactory results from
beech is dependent on its having enough time to settle down and stop warping. I
have anecdotal evidence that the traditional one year per inch is not
sufficient; probably two years per inch thickness is more like it.  This is not
a matter of moisture content; it is more likely the slow release of growing
stresses. And kiln drying is no good at all. You have to put it in a corner and
wait for it, maybe for years.
You don't want to put a lot of work into flattening and thicknessing the slab,
by any method, only to have it curl like a potato chip after you have cocmpleted
it. My instinct is that slicing it into narrow strips and regluing it won't
helep either. You just have to wait for time.
As for the front knob of your plane: Rosewood seems a mite like over-egging the
pudding for a beater #4 reprposed into a scrub. Just use anything you have
around. I had a plane where the last 2" of a leather-capped chisel handle had
dbeen cut off and used as a front knob. I've seen a golf ball used. I don't
think that I am making up the plane with a tonka-toy truck drilled and screwed
into place---though I can' remember where I came across that one. Or  a chunk of
"prime first growth winter hardened range fed american hardwood," like the late
John Lederer's file handles. After all, it's just a tool (ducking and running
fast.)

Tom Conroy
273588 Darrell <larchmont479@g...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew asks about flattening and thinning down a big slab of beech...

On Mon, 3 May 2021 at 22:41, Andrew Heybey  wrote:

> We recently redid our kitchen.  There is a small island in the kitchen,
> the top of which is about 3’ x 3’.  A friend gave us a large slab of beech
> to use as the top of the island.  The slab is is about 36” by 45” by 3-3.5”
> (it tapers from one end to the other).  It is also bowed by about 1/2”
> across the narrow dimension.
>
>
>
Well, I have a fairly recent project (Pandemic Project #2) that used a big
slab of figured cherry.  My stock was 48" X 18" and I had to plane half an
inch off it.  I learned long ago that one face of a piece of wood can behave
very different from the other.  When I worked on that cherry, I ran a jack
plane over one face to see how it worked.  It got reasonably smooth and
flat easily.  The second face did not work easily at all.  Tearout,
splintering,
and just all-round nasty.  So, that meant the Good face was the first one.
I proceeded to flatten that good face and get it reasonably smooth.

Thicknessing, well, for my purposes I just needed it to sit level on the
frame of the table. I used a scrub plane to hog off most of the stock
and then a jack plane to bring it down to the line.  Ah yes, the line.
I used a Stanley #78 rebate & fillister plane to cut a rebate with the
fence registering on the Face side.  That means I simply plane the
off side down to the bottom of that rebate.  Easy to see, that's for sure.
I only scrubbed for 30 minutes or so at a time, otherwise I would have
ended up a broken man, trying to accomplish the entire work at once.

I put some pictures up on Galootopedia.  Here's one where you can see
the rebate and the scrub plane.
http://galootopedia.com/old-tools_wiki/images/e/e6/Scrubbing.jpg

I don't know how well dried your stock is...  my cherry sat in the wood
rack for well over a decade.  Despite being 18 inches wide it seems
pretty stable so far.

Best of luck!
Darrell
-- 
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
273589 Spike <spikethebike@c...> 2021‑05‑04 Re: flattening a large slab
Speaking of the stability of dried stock, I have just been turning a bowl out
of some curly maple that I have had for over 22 years, stored in my basement
shop, now in my “woodwrights” shop. After turning the outer profile and
reversing it to start the interior, it moved like it was green, as the internal
stresses got to work. I hope the slab in question doesn’t have figure!
 Best, Spike
 P.S., I have recently discovered how much better a number 40 (dedicated
scrubber) works for hogging off material as opposed to a “scrubbed” (cambered)
smoother!

Sent from the seat of my pants
273590 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
> On May 4, 2021, at 7:55 PM, Spike  wrote:
> 
> P.S., I have recently discovered how much better a number 40 (dedicated
scrubber) works for hogging off material as opposed to a “scrubbed” (cambered)
smoother!

Agreed - I think it is the narrow blade

Ed Minch
273592 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
I am overwhelmed by the many thoughtful and helpful responses.  I will try to
respond in groups more-or-less by topic.  This is the “tools” topic.

> On May 3, 2021, at 10:57 PM, curt seeliger  wrote:
> 
> Good evening, Andrew,
> That's a lot of wasting to be doing with a plane. You might consider a hewing
axe/hatchet. This has been covered by Prof. Follansbee, and an excellent reason
to buy another tool if you don't already have a collection of these.
> https://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/2021/04/25/sharpening-a-hewing-hatchet/
should get you started

That is really cool.  I have done a small bit of green woodworking (built a
chair at St. Roy’s school) so that is appealing.  But I don’t have such a
hatchet and honestly to me this seems like a case where the relatively small
shaving taken by a plane means it is harder (or at least takes longer) to screw
up.  Fortunately I am in no particular hurry.

> On May 4, 2021, at 8:53 PM, Ed Minch  wrote:
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 7:55 PM, Spike  wrote:
>> 
>> P.S., I have recently discovered how much better a number 40 (dedicated
scrubber) works for hogging off material as opposed to a “scrubbed” (cambered)
smoother!
> 
> Agreed - I think it is the narrow blade

Agreed, I have *used* a #40, but don’t own one.  I could try grinding the iron
to a smaller radius…

> On May 4, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Kirk Eppler via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 7:41 PM Andrew Heybey  wrote:
> 
> Wow, for being on the list since 1997, you have not succumbed to the too
> many tool choices that some of us have.  But seriously, moving up to a
> bigger plane may help.

I bought several tools in the late 90s (and the all-important “Galoot” hat) and
then didn’t really do much for about 20 years.  But it’s not quite that bad,
while I have a surfeit of #4s for some reason, I also have a #7C and a #5 1/4
that I just bought from Paddy last year.

> On May 4, 2021, at 4:59 PM, Thomas Conroy via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> As for the front knob of your plane: Rosewood seems a mite like over-egging
the pudding for a beater #4 reprposed into a scrub. Just use anything you have
around. I had a plane where the last 2" of a leather-capped chisel handle had
dbeen cut off and used as a front knob. I've seen a golf ball used. I don't
think that I am making up the plane with a tonka-toy truck drilled and screwed
into place---though I can' remember where I came across that one. Or  a chunk of
"prime first growth winter hardened range fed american hardwood," like the late
John Lederer's file handles. After all, it's just a tool (ducking and running
fast.)


Good point, I have plenty of scraps I could make a knob out of.  But I was under
the impression that the screw is some weird thread?  Maybe I should instead ask
if anyone has a front knob screw?  Am I wrong about that?

thanks to all!
andrew
273593 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
The “techniques” topic.  Tomorrow will be the “wood” topic :-).  Thanks again to
everyone.

> On May 4, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Kirk Eppler via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> What little slab work I have done has greatly benefited from using a 5 or
> 5-1/2 diagonally, alternating diagonals. I’ve used my winding sticks and a
> longer straightedge to figure out the highpoints, remove them, and repeats.
> ( I have a friend who built a router device for this, kills me to see his
> FB feed). The extra mass if the -1/2 is a nice touch.  A big wooden plane
> could be used as well.

> On May 4, 2021, at 2:04 PM, James DuPrie  wrote:
> 
> back when I was doing surfacing by hand, I used a combination of #5 and #7
planes. start at one end, cutting on a diagonal (45 degrees to grain), and work
your way to the other end. Go back to the start, and do the same thing, but on
the other diagonal (90 degrees from your first pass). When you start, the high
spots are obvious, and I'd hog them off with scrub, then switch to coarse set
bench planes. As you make progress, start using winding sticks and a straight
edge. When you get to the end, start tightening up the throats of your planes,
and they'll do the rest...

> On May 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, scottg  wrote:
> 
> A Handyman #4 will do if you have to.
> A more solid jack plane with a goodly camber on the razor sharp iron will hog
more chips faster though.
> 
> Use your winding sticks to see where its the worst.
>  Go diagonal or even straight across to start.
> 
> No time to squinge along and look at shavings etc. Dig in with a will and hog
some thick chips fast!
> When you get closer its time to slow down and use a longer plane.

There is a consensus! And yes that is my basic plan:
Use my “scrub” plane, straight edge and winding sticks to more-or-less flatten
one face, then use the #5-1/4 and/or #7C diagonally to do a final flattening.  I
will use my “good” #4 with the grain (and perhaps scrapers or scraping plane) to
finish.  Though the #5-1/4 is smaller than a #5, not larger like the #5-1/2.

I dug out the winding sticks I made 20 years ago, and they are no longer
straight, so I guess that is the immediate project.

> On May 4, 2021, at 2:04 PM, James DuPrie  wrote:
> 
> I never flattened the bottom. I'd knock off really high spots, but instead of
flattening the whole surface, I'd plane 'slots' (I guess technically they'd be
dados) for the stretchers to sit in. To keep the top from sliding around too
much, I'd drill a 1" dowel into the center of each stretcher, and bore a hole in
the bottom surface to match it. Keep it loose so It's easy to get on (and off if
you ever need to disassemble). Keeping the slots in plane, and parallel to the
top is pretty easy if you do the top surface first. Then you just flip it over
(bottom up), mark out the slots, and using a level and winding sticks lay out
the areas to cut out and mark the depth. You can attack it with planes, or hog
it out with chisels then clean it up with planes or chisels. My method was to
cut the shoulders of the slots with a  back saw, but cutting about 1/4" shallow.
Hog both slots out with a big chisel, then start sneaking up on the final line
with planes - FREQUENTLY checking to make sure you're keeping both slots at the
same depth and parallel. I always worked both slots at the same time because I
found it easier to make sure they stayed at the same depth and parallel that
way. I didn't have a specific "final thickness" target, so I'd just work the
slots until they both had clean surfaces and were in line.

> On May 4, 2021, at 10:08 AM, yorkshireman@y... wrote:
> 
> Next thought - Old time folk wouldn’t necessarily flatten the underside.  If
it is to rest on bearers across the top of the unit - then just provide trenches
/ rebates where the bearers run, and leave the excess timber in place.

> On May 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, scottg  wrote:
> 
> Richard is absolutely right of course.
> Flattening both sides is a machine approach.
>  You can shim up / relieve the bottom easy enough.
> There is no bonus at all for a finished bottom.
> 
> If you are doing it by hand let it look a little like it was done by hand.
> There is no bonus in copying K-Mart with hand tools.

Thanks, I had not thought about just flattening the bottom enough to sit on the
cabinet.  The base of the island is a standard (USA) kitchen base cabinet, open
with the carcase of the cabinet making a rectangle that the top sits on.  There
are blocks in the corners to put a fastener up into the top from below.

I have several constraints with trying to put an uneven bottom on that kind of
base:
- It is bowed by 1/2”, if I put a groove in it to make a level spot to sit on
the base, then will it hang down and interfere with the drawers (if the concave
side is down).  Or if the convex side is down, will it hang down and interfere
contents of the drawers on the inside?
- The base is actually 2’x3’ while the top is almost square, 3’x3’ (it will
overhang so a stool or two can be parked under the overhang).  Will have to
figure out how that affects the bottom.
- I do not want the top to be too thick because I don’t want the finished island
to be any taller than it is with the current temporary plywood+2x4 top which is
2.25”.  In fact if it only ends up 2” above the top of the cabinet that would be
fine.  So adding battens or other supports on top of the cabinet is not really
going to work.
- Aesthetically, what will SWMBO approve of?  I expect that she will be in favor
of a non-machine-made look, but I need to discuss.

> On May 4, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Darrell  wrote:
> 
> Thicknessing, well, for my purposes I just needed it to sit level on the
> frame of the table. I used a scrub plane to hog off most of the stock
> and then a jack plane to bring it down to the line.  Ah yes, the line.
> I used a Stanley #78 rebate & fillister plane to cut a rebate with the
> fence registering on the Face side.  That means I simply plane the
> off side down to the bottom of that rebate.  Easy to see, that's for sure.
> I only scrubbed for 30 minutes or so at a time, otherwise I would have
> ended up a broken man, trying to accomplish the entire work at once.

I like the rebate idea, and I even have a #78.  At this point, it is more like
10 minutes of scrubbing before my computer programmer arms get tired, but by the
time I am done maybe I can get to 30!

andrew
273595 Adam R. Maxwell 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
> On May 4, 2021, at 20:27 , Andrew Heybey  wrote:
> 
> Agreed, I have *used* a #40, but don’t own one.  I could try grinding the iron
to a smaller radius…

As I learned from this list, a German jack is worth acquiring as a scrub, and
last I looked, could be found for a small fraction of the cost of Satanley's
#40. They have a front horn, are lightweight, very nimble, and can hog off big
ol' frito-like chips of wood without a galoot's arms falling off. Mine have a
heavy single iron with a very pronounced radius, and wide open mouths. It's
shocking how fast you can remove wood.

For flattening a slab, I like to wedge it on my bench so it's stable, then use a
surface gage (or hold a pencil on a piece of wood, etc) to draw a line around
the perimeter and define the top. Plane a bevel down to that line, then work to
it without constantly stopping to fart around with winding sticks. Shown here
with a wide, twisted board, rather than a slab, but it's the same idea.

https://maxwells.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Kitchen-Lights/i-4cS7VJp/A

Probably too late for all this, but I never pass up a chance to promote the
German jack.

Adam
doing more shoveling than woodworking lately, in Benton City, WA
273597 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: Scrub planes (was Re: flattening a large slab)
It’s pretty much personal taste.  I have an NIB Stanley 40 with the factory
radius on it, and it is much more than you might think - at lest in Stanley’s
opnion.  I have kept my user 40 at about the same radius and it take chips that
look like a large Frito - very satifying in how fast things happen

Ed Minch
273596 John M. Johnston <jmjhnstn@m...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew,

For $129 you can get a Lee Valley a scrub plane; a much better tool than the
Stanley.
Cheers,
John Johnston



John M. Johnston

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.


________________________________
From: oldtools@g...  on behalf of Adam R. Maxwell via groups.io <
amaxwell=mac.com@g...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:32:32 AM
To: Andrew Heybey 
Cc: OldTools Group 
Subject: Re: [oldtools] flattening a large slab

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click
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> On May 4, 2021, at 20:27 , Andrew Heybey  wrote:
>
> Agreed, I have *used* a #40, but don’t own one.  I could try grinding the iron
to a smaller radius…

As I learned from this list, a German jack is worth acquiring as a scrub, and
last I looked, could be found for a small fraction of the cost of Satanley's
#40. They have a front horn, are lightweight, very nimble, and can hog off big
ol' frito-like chips of wood without a galoot's arms falling off. Mine have a
heavy single iron with a very pronounced radius, and wide open mouths. It's
shocking how fast you can remove wood.

For flattening a slab, I like to wedge it on my bench so it's stable, then use a
surface gage (or hold a pencil on a piece of wood, etc) to draw a line around
the perimeter and define the top. Plane a bevel down to that line, then work to
it without constantly stopping to fart around with winding sticks. Shown here
with a wide, twisted board, rather than a slab, but it's the same idea.

https://maxwells.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Kitchen-Lights/i-4cS7VJp/A

Probably too late for all this, but I never pass up a chance to promote the
German jack.

Adam
doing more shoveling than woodworking lately, in Benton City, WA
273598 Mark van Roojen <mvr1@e...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
Andrew wrote:

Good point, I have plenty of scraps I could make a knob out of. But I 
was under the impression that the screw is some weird thread? Maybe I 
should instead ask if anyone has a front knob screw? Am I wrong about that?

If you are worried about getting a screw for the front know I think I 
can find you one.  I would need your address, but I believe I have a 
small stock of screws and nuts for front knobs.

- Mark
273600 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: Scrub planes (was Re: flattening a large slab)
On May 5, 2021, at 12:01 AM, Ken Wright via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> Gathered Galoots,
> 
> Andrew's post got me to thinking.  I have a crappy Stanley "Handyman"
> #3 that I'd like to use as a scrub.  Can anyone recommend a radius to
> grind the iron?  Or is that more a matter of personal taste?

I watched Paul Seller’s “turn a #4 into a scrub plane” video and IIRC he did 7
1/8”.  I did about 6.5” because that was as wide as the compass I had on hand
would go :-).

> On Mon, 2021-05-03 at 22:41 -0400, Andrew Heybey wrote:
>> I have turned my crappy Stanley “Handyman” #4 into a scrub plane by
>> grinding the iron in an arc,     
>> https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219531, and started in 
> 
> On a personal note, the gem of my tools is my Stanley Handyman #4.  It
> was my father's, and was the first plane I ever used.  I wouldn't part
> with it for anything!

Mine was also my father’s, though he was not a woodworker and I don’t actually
ever remember him using it.  It’s mouth is a little wider than my other #4s
which is a good thing in this case.

andrew
273601 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: flattening a large slab
Mark,

Before they went Metric, Stanley used an obscure thread for their knob & tote
Screws.  It approximates a #12-20, but the thread profile is NOT of the National
Standard (NS) form; it's a rounded profile made by rolling.

A #12-20 NS tap & die can be obtained from Victor Machinery.  It's not a perfect
fit, but it's functional.

Reproduction parts for old Stanley tools can be obtained from the St. James Bay
Tool Co. of Arizona.  They also sell the taps & dies, though I don't know what
the thread form is. ( I'm inclined to think they are likely the correct Stanley
form, as St. James Bay makes good stuff. )

John Ruth
Whose green Handyman #4 has proven to be a very good plane after some fettling.
273602 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2021‑05‑05 Re: Scrub planes (was Re: flattening a large slab)
My scrub plane is the first wooden plane I ever made.  It has a regular
escapement, and is quite narrow.  It wasn’t quite finished when I found I needed
to work some very rough, very green timber.
So I found a blade - something like a No12 from a moulder, sharpened it, and
glued in a rought tote I had intended to finish.  Made up a knob and glued that
in, and set to.
It worked wonderfully.  All the agonising and blether I had read (here,
sometimes)  meant nothing.  It has stayed as a scrub plane ever since.  Most
recently it did duty on some part dried beech which a fellow green woodworker
needed flat  (actually he’s a ranger at an urban park/reserve down near the
Tyne, and is only beginning a journey into spokeshaves, bench planes, and real
joints after a life of farm gate hinge setting, stiles, thinning, felling, and
so forth)
It can dig out a near 1/8 divot at a time - narrow, but deep.  A few strokes and
the job is done.  Because it is narrow, the ‘lands’ on each side of the mouth
form a natural depth stop if you were to run it over the same place twice.  If
forces you to alter your angle and line on each stroke.


All of that to say - think laterally if you are altering a No4.  First off - you
need a wide mouth.  No, wider than that.  Second, don’t aim to camber the entire
width of the blade.  Grind back 5/8 at each side, and make a deep curved cutting
edge in the centre. - like a mouth with only the two centre teeth in place.


Here - I’ll take photos.. I’m not going to make ascii art work for this.



Right.  photos going up now.  I see the blade is clearly marked, and I’ve set it
for a green wood job.  plenty of depth, but not much width, so you can really
clear timber going cross grain.
I also find that I’d got that Tote ready for install on a bench plane - drilled
for the rod and footscrew and all.  I could just use that right now for a
restore I’m busy with.


Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot.

Pics in my album here in groups.io 


> On 5 May 2021, at 14:01, Andrew Heybey  wrote:
> 
> On May 5, 2021, at 12:01 AM, Ken Wright via groups.io
 wrote:
>> 
>> Gathered Galoots,
>> 
>> Andrew's post got me to thinking.  I have a crappy Stanley "Handyman"
>> #3 that I'd like to use as a scrub.  Can anyone recommend a radius to
>> grind the iron?  Or is that more a matter of personal taste?
> 
> I watched Paul Seller’s “turn a #4 into a scrub plane” video and IIRC he did 7
1/8”.  I did about 6.5” because that was as wide as the compass I had on hand
would go :-).
> 
>> On Mon, 2021-05-03 at 22:41 -0400, Andrew Heybey wrote:
>>> I have turned my crappy Stanley “Handyman” #4 into a scrub plane by
>>> grinding the iron in an arc,     
>>> https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263744/3219531, and started in 
>> 
>> On a personal note, the gem of my tools is my Stanley Handyman #4.  It
>> was my father's, and was the first plane I ever used.  I wouldn't part
>> with it for anything!
> 
> Mine was also my father’s, though he was not a woodworker and I don’t actually
ever remember him using it.  It’s mouth is a little wider than my other #4s
which is a good thing in this case.
> 
> andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

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