OldTools Archive
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270413 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2020‑04‑06 | Old Bony |
I really enjoyed the boxwood discussion thanks Guys So I have an old tongue cutter. I assume 1/2 of a tongue and groove set, but any plow plane makes a groove. I found this years ago at a yard sale. I never heard of the maker or even the region? Keokuk? This is a town somewhere? Anyway I always thought it was pretty cool. Anybody else have a bone inlaid plane? yours scott http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane1.JPG http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane2.JPG http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane3.JPG -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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270414 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Pretty cool Scott - does the bone look original? I drove through Keokuk once, college roommate lived on the IL side of the river. Ed Minch |
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270415 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Scott, Neat old tool! Can't help you with identifying the maker, but Keokuk is in Iowa, on the west bank of the Mississippi River. Cheers, Chuck Taylor north of Seattle USA On Monday, April 6, 2020, 12:52:56 PM PDT, scott grandstaff wrote: ... So I have an old tongue cutter. I assume 1/2 of a tongue and groove set, but any plow plane makes a groove. I found this years ago at a yard sale. I never heard of the maker or even the region? Keokuk? This is a town somewhere? Anyway I always thought it was pretty cool. Anybody else have a bone inlaid plane? yours scott http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane1.JPG http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane2.JPG http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane3.JPG -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff |
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270416 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Scott, Keokuk is a small-ish City in Iowa, located where the Desmoines River joins the Mississippi. ( A natural spot for a city; junction of two historically navigable rivers. ) Are you sure that’s bone and not horn? I started a thread a while back about an heirloom carriage-maker’s rabbet I have which is missing half of its sole veneer. The Porch convinced me that horn is more likely than bone due to its properties. John Ruth |
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270417 | Kirk Eppler | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
According to DAT, S.W.&H.TUCKER/KEOKUK The Tuckers were hardware dealers who marked planes. So now you have to work harder to figure out who made it for them. KE, watching the rain while on telecons for today, and sneaking into the garage for things like superglue. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:52 PM scott grandstaff |
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270419 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Friends: a tiny bit of experience here....horn softens in hot water, bone does not (at least calcified bone doesn’t but maybe some juvenile bone tissue might be a bit flexible with heating, but basically bone doesn’t soften much if at all unless you are chemically destroying its integrity). You heat up some horn In hot water or steam and then you can shape it/bend it or whatever, and then hold it in place until it “sets” (its the ‘original thermoplastic material’). You can fiddle with it maybe a couple of times (reheat it), but then it gets bad and can crack or weaken so that it’s not strong anymore (not sure of the chemical reaction, but it basically gets cooked? or whatever), so you should try to hold it in the shape you want the first time around and hold it there for at least couple days (or a week to be safe if you don’t have extra to practice with). You can cut the horn open and flatten a section to make a flat part, for example, lots of things used to have horn parts, and it can take a nice polish when dry and cured... Cheers Claudio |
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270421 | Kirk Eppler | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Sorry, got busy editing, took out the age, They started in 1852-65. (Per a woodward HS book of alumnus), guessing a bit based on gaps You sure have a wide iron in there for a grooving plane, almost looks like a jack with arms. KE https://books.google.com/books?id=px8WAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA295&dq=tucker+keoku k+iowa+hardware+howard+samuel+tucker&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved =2ahUKEwjb-fPX4tToAhWdFjQIHSJSCdgQ6AEwA3oECAMQAg">https://books.google.com/books ?id=px8WAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA295&dq=tucker+keokuk+iowa+hardware+howard+samuel+tucker&hl =en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb- fPX4tToAhWdFjQIHSJSCdgQ6AEwA3oECAMQAg On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 2:28 PM Kirk Eppler |
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270423 | Kirk Eppler | 2020‑04‑06 | Re: Old Bony |
Scott Just did a quick perusal through Sandusky, Sargent, Auburn and Ohio Tools catalogs, and none of them are as old as 1865. All of them only show the grooving plane of the match plane sets. None mention horn or bone, so wondering if it's a user add on. Sandusky 1869 - 1926 Ohio Tool 1823 - 1920 Sargent 1855 - 1970 Auburn 1864 - 1893 Here is a typical listing, this from Ohio, in 1910. https://archive.org/details/ohiotoolcocatalogpgs3142/page/n5/mode/2up KE On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 2:45 PM Kirk Eppler |
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270450 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
On 2020-04-06 1:52 p.m., scott grandstaff wrote: > I really enjoyed the boxwood discussion > thanks Guys > > So I have an old tongue cutter. I assume 1/2 of a tongue and groove > set, but any plow plane makes a groove. I found this years ago at a > yard sale. > I never heard of the maker or even the region? Keokuk? This is a town > somewhere? > > Anyway I always thought it was pretty cool. Anybody else have a bone > inlaid plane? > yours scott > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane1.JPG > > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane2.JPG > > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane3.JPG > > Hey Scott Interesting plane there. I keep looking at it & wondering... I've never seen a T&G plane that wide. And I can't see why it has such a wide blade for such a narrow job. Do you suppose somebody took a garden variety bench plane and converted it for a special purpose plane, inlay and all? Don, enjoying the quiet, but not the snow! -- Stay safe. Be well! Stay home and save lives. Long may you run! - Neil Young Keep Your Distance. - Richard Thompson “It's a wonderful thing to be optimistic. It keeps you healthy and it keeps you resilient.” —Daniel Kahneman "...for real change to occur the pain of the status quo has to be greater than the fear of the unknown." -Jed Dorsheimer Who elected those f_ck-wits? |
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270454 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
I can't see why it has such a wide blade for such a narrow job. Theories The plane is truly gigantic for a tongue plane It cuts a 3/8" X 5/8" tongue onto ~1 3/4" stock. I don't think this was a home shop or even a one man custom furniture shop tool. I think this one was industrial. In industry there are always certain jobs that really suck. And if you work there long enough and have to do that job often, a custom tool -will- be made. I must have made 10 custom tools for Noranda Gray Eagle mine. You just get tired of doing things the hard way. (Wait until I'm good and dead, and mine is closed down, and a couple generations go by. Any of those tools that survive? Nobody will know what 'n hell I was thinkin! hahahaaah) So I expect this plane was for maybe an upright grand piano factory or maybe something to with fancy railroad cars? Elaborate bars or churches? Keokuk is right on the river. So river steamer parts might have even been the need!! Whatever it was, overlarge pieces of stock needed to be joined................ frequently. The plane is very well made. Since it has a hardware store mark I am guessing a custom order. I wonder if Sandusky (not far away) had a custom shop? Where you could order "off the menu" tools? Or one of the other big planemakers where you could order something special? A local craftsman of expert skill could have been enlisted, but the arms and screws do not look casual. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane5.JPG I'm sure the bone lining was all about "the last one didn't last long enough, this time we are making sure it holds up" And man they weren't kidding! Look how much bone there is. Even the top of the tongue is paved in bone. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/tongueplane4.JPG So again custom factory plane shop, or maybe ordered from the factory plain, and then locally inlaid after the plane was made? The bone pieces themselves are huge. Solid straight workable bone is hard to get this big. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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270455 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
Could have been a standard filester plane modified at point of use Ed Minch |
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270456 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
> Ed sez > Could have been a standard filester plane modified at point of use Neither side of the plane body is open. The throat was chopped from solid. It "never cut a rabbet, ain't no friend of mine" hahaah S -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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270457 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
Scott, SWAG, which has probably already occurred to you: tongue and grove on heavy wooden flooring for which no pre-milled T&G was available. As you’ve inferred, it has to be for an extensive, repetitive task on thick stock. Think of riven (split-out) or crudely-sawn (pit-sawn?) boards, planed on the top surface, then T&G’d by hand. The bottoms of the boards won’t rest equally on the beams until the carpenter cuts a dado across each board in way of the beams, usually with a lipped adze. Or, it could be for working on boards with ingrained abrasives, like Teak. John Ruth |
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270460 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
Holy Crap Scott, sure that isn’t IVORY? Can you check with a hand lens? Claudio On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 10:43 AM scott grandstaff |
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270463 | "Ed O'" <edo@e...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
I sent a reply to this earlier, but it appears to have gotten lost. Wide jack plane size tongue & groove planes are plank match planes. Normal molding plane size t&g planes are board match planes. If you google Chapin plank match plane you will see some examples, or just plank match plane. The wear strips look like regular cow bone to me. It does not have the visual characteristics that would make me think ivory or even whale bone. I see this form with some regularity around the North East and always kind of assumed that they were used in some aspect of boat building. In looking at Whelan's The Wooden Plane book I see no mention of this though. Just for thick stock. Ed O' -----Original Message----- From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of Claudio DeLorenzi Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 1:03 PM To: scottg@s... Cc: porch |
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270464 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
Considering your location Scott, might it have been used in preparing planks for shoring up a mine? Another application could be flooring in a factory or grain elevator maybe, someplace where they wanted to prevent dust or whatever falling through the cracks. FWIW Don, tired from ordering groceries and such on-line... I thought these pesky computer toolss were meant to make jobs quick and easy! (Off-topic rant off ) On 2020-04-08 2:46 p.m., Ed O' wrote: > I sent a reply to this earlier, but it appears to have gotten lost. > > Wide jack plane size tongue & groove planes are plank match planes. Normal molding plane size t&g planes are board match planes. > > If you google Chapin plank match plane you will see some examples, or just plank match plane. > > The wear strips look like regular cow bone to me. It does not have the visual characteristics that would make me think ivory or even whale bone. > > I see this form with some regularity around the North East and always kind of assumed that they were used in some aspect of boat building. In looking at Whelan's The Wooden Plane book I see no mention of this though. Just for thick stock. > > Ed O' > > -----Original Message----- > From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of Claudio DeLorenzi > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 1:03 PM > To: scottg@s... > Cc: porch |
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270465 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2020‑04‑08 | Re: Old Bony |
Hey Ed!! Thanks for the clue! Yup, there can be no doubt what it is. Not off the menu at all! Its just rare to see anything like this locally. Not a chance of a grain elevator within 200 miles. Rocky soil, steep mountain country has few opportunities to grow a big crop of grain. I am wondering though. The mine aspect sounds good. I wonder if the plane was about jointing planks for mining flumes. They built sometimes impressive channels, miles of ditching and large wooden flumes to cross the deep places. To bring in water for placer mining. There is an old mine downriver from me that was all done by hand. Just walking through it makes you feel like an ant! There are literally miles of ditches fanning out, bringing several creeks into play. A large flume would need a way to keep water from gushing out the bottom of it? Still no idea what it was boned. And it does appear to be bone from the grain. Ivory might put it in the jeweler category? haahah I once saw for sale, (but they wanted too much), a jointer plane at least 5' long. Not a coopers tool, this one was too narrow (about 2 1/2" blade maybe) and had a tote on it. Asking around that time it was John Walters who identified it as a tank jointer. We had lots of sometimes sizeable redwood water tanks that were built on the spot. Holding water for mining tactics. Seemed perfectly logical the minute he said it. I wouldn't be surprised to find flume planks were also being jointed. Yeah the Klamath river valley was once touted as "A million dollars a mile!" (when gold was 20 dollars an ounce) They said some places they picked it up like berries in a patch. The county courthouse used to have a fantastic display of nuggets the size of your hand and goose eggs etc,...........plus pans, boxes and 2 gallon buckets full of smaller gold nuggets. Sadly a few years back some guys broke in (next door to the police station with patrol cars parked all around??) and stole it. The "thieves" were quickly caught, but no gold was ever recovered. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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270468 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑04‑09 | Re: Old Bony |
Got off my duff and had a look at Sellens' "Woodworking Planes" He lists the following which seems a good match for Old Bony. "Match Planes, moving fnce. These planes have a movable fence attached to the sole with two recessed -head screws working in a slot in the same manner as the common filletster. They were available with and without plating." The illustrations for that item show one with a wide iron, like that of a bench plane., another with a narrow blade like a fillister. He also lists these: "Match planes, plank. Length 14-15 inches, size for 1, 1-1/4, 1-1/2, 2 inch stock thickness. These planes were available plated and with box strips. " The illustrations show a pair of planes, one with a fixed fence and wide bench-plane type of iron, the other a narrow plough-like skated iron. FWIW Don On 2020-04-08 5:10 p.m., scott grandstaff wrote: > > Hey Ed!! Thanks for the clue! > Yup, there can be no doubt what it is. Not off the menu at all! > Its just rare to see anything like this locally. > > Not a chance of a grain elevator within 200 miles. Rocky soil, steep > mountain country has few opportunities to grow a big crop of grain. > I am wondering though. The mine aspect sounds good. > > I wonder if the plane was about jointing planks for mining flumes. > They built sometimes impressive channels, miles of ditching and large > wooden flumes to cross the deep places. > To bring in water for placer mining. > > There is an old mine downriver from me that was all done by hand. > Just walking through it makes you feel like an ant! There are > literally miles of ditches fanning out, bringing several creeks into > play. > A large flume would need a way to keep water from gushing out the > bottom of it? > > Still no idea what it was boned. > And it does appear to be bone from the grain. Ivory might put it in > the jeweler category? haahah > > I once saw for sale, (but they wanted too much), a jointer plane at > least 5' long. > Not a coopers tool, this one was too narrow (about 2 1/2" blade maybe) > and had a tote on it. > Asking around that time it was John Walters who identified it as a > tank jointer. > We had lots of sometimes sizeable redwood water tanks that were built > on the spot. > Holding water for mining tactics. Seemed perfectly logical the minute > he said it. > > I wouldn't be surprised to find flume planks were also being jointed. > > Yeah the Klamath river valley was once touted as "A million dollars a > mile!" > (when gold was 20 dollars an ounce) They said some places they > picked it up like berries in a patch. > > The county courthouse used to have a fantastic display of nuggets the > size of your hand and goose eggs etc,...........plus pans, boxes and 2 > gallon buckets full of smaller gold nuggets. > > Sadly a few years back some guys broke in (next door to the police > station with patrol cars parked all around??) and stole it. > The "thieves" were quickly caught, but no gold was ever recovered. > yours scott > -- Stay safe. Be well! Stay home and save lives. “Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.” - Goethe “The will to succeed is important, but what's more important is the will to prepare.”—Bobby Knight Long may you run! - Neil Young Keep Your Distance. - Richard Thompson “It's a wonderful thing to be optimistic. It keeps you healthy and it keeps you resilient.” —Daniel Kahneman "...for real change to occur the pain of the status quo has to be greater than the fear of the unknown." -Jed Dorsheimer Who elected those f_ck-wits? |
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