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266066 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑10 interesting French plane
Jim Bode has a French plane on his site which appears to be a jointer ( 
21in). It has a carved escapement and an integral 'push' which wraps 
around the top and right-hander's 'near' side, in-line with a patch in 
the sole in the usual position just ahead of the mouth. It seems to me 
that the shape of the 'push' on the side of the plane is not suitable 
for grasping or pushing with the left hand. It looks more suited to 
pushing with the right hand, with the thumb wrapping around the side. 
That would ensure solid contact between the sole and material ahead of 
the mouth. But that puts the right hand ahead of the mouth, a most 
unusual position. Am I reading this wrong?

https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/exquisite-
rabot-du-charpentier-deglise-the-plane-of-the-carpenter-of-the-church-81369r

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266067 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
It looks that way to me, Don.  It would put the hand directly over the
cutting edge of the iron, but leaves the other hand with little to
contribute.  Maybe the idea of a one hand jointer didn't catch on.  I don't
think I've seen another similar.

Phil
266068 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
With a slight typo on your part, I agree with your thoughts.  Weird bird.
Maybe designed for a specific purpose, but I don't know what it could be.


....Left hand ahead of the mouth....

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Don Schwartz  wrote:

> appears to be a jointer ( 21in). It has a carved escapement and an
> integral 'push' which wraps around the top and right-hander's 'near' side,
> in-line .... the shape of the 'push' on the side of the plane is not
> suitable for grasping or pushing with the left hand. It looks more suited
> to pushing with the right hand, with the thumb wrapping around the side.
> That would ensure solid contact between the sole and material ahead of the
> mouth. But that puts the right hand ahead of the mouth, a most unusual
> position. Am I reading this wrong?
>
> > https
://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/
> exquisite-rabot-du-charpentier-deglise-the-plane-of-the-
> carpenter-of-the-church-81369r
>
>
>
-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, CA, who only had a small Berg looking chisel to show
for my last trip.
266069 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
Ok this is super weird.
   The blade is very low angle, look how long the blade ramp is!

It looks like you could put your right hand inside the "hook", left hand 
forward into space,  and push it from the middle of the plane.
Looks ---really-- uncomfortable.

   OR you could put your left hand into the hook and the right somewhere 
behind the blade and push that way. Any particle of a tote or even a 
bump would be really appreciable pushing it this way.

     Still makes it a damn "rt hand only" plane grrrrrrrrrrrr
       yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
266070 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
On 2018-07-10 12:35 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
> Ok this is super weird.
>   The blade is very low angle, look how long the blade ramp is!

The angle made me think it could be for use as a mitre plane - a very 
long one!

Don

“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266071 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
GG's,


I'm thinking that if the user was right-handed, his left small finger was up
against the "cuff" with the web of his rather large hand on the wedge.


Look at the relief on the left side of the wooden wedge in the second and third
photos.  (It does not show up well in the first photo.)


 IMHO, this relief is too distinct to be mere wear from heavy use. Its a place
to rest the web of one's left hand.


We know it was used a lot because of the patch in the sole. (BTW, isn't that the
most ornate throat-closing patch you've ever seen? ) This was somebody's "go-to"
plane.


Have we considered the possibility that the user was a lefty?  Or, that he lost
a hand in the Napoleonic wars ?


John Ruth

In New Jersey, where the Flea Market Season is in full swing.
266072 "Ed O'" <edo@e...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
I assumed that the right hand was behind the "cuff"  with thumb pointing
down on the side and the index finger on the top crossing over the top of
the plane and that the relieve on the wedge was for chafing relief of the
wrist or forearm against the wedge.  With the left hand forward of the top
escapement.

-----Original Message-----

GG's,


I'm thinking that if the user was right-handed, his left small finger was up
against the "cuff" with the web of his rather large hand on the wedge.


Look at the relief on the left side of the wooden wedge in the second and
third photos.  (It does not show up well in the first photo.)


 IMHO, this relief is too distinct to be mere wear from heavy use. Its a
place to rest the web of one's left hand.


We know it was used a lot because of the patch in the sole. (BTW, isn't that
the most ornate throat-closing patch you've ever seen? ) This was somebody's
"go-to" plane.


Have we considered the possibility that the user was a lefty?  Or, that he
lost a hand in the Napoleonic wars ?


John Ruth
266073 Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
Don, GGs

That's an incredibly long way out for the shavings. I'd like to see the
shape of the throat. Plenty of opportunity for jamming/choking.

I also wonder if it is to be used primarily single handed.

Mick Dowling
Melbourne
Member, Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia Inc.



On 11/7/18, 2:49 am, "Don Schwartz"  wrote:

> 
Jim Bode has a French plane on his site which appears to be a jointer (
> 
21in). It has a carved escapement and an integral 'push' which wraps 
around
> the top and right-hander's 'near' side, in-line with a patch in 
the sole in
> the usual position just ahead of the mouth. It seems to me 
that the shape of
> the 'push' on the side of the plane is not suitable 
for grasping or pushing
> with the left hand. It looks more suited to 
pushing with the right hand, with
> the thumb wrapping around the side. 
That would ensure solid contact between
> the sole and material ahead of 
the mouth. But that puts the right hand ahead
> of the mouth, a most 
unusual position.
266074 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑10 Re: interesting French plane
On 2018-07-10 3:27 PM, Ed O' wrote:
> I assumed that the right hand was behind the "cuff"  with thumb pointing
> down on the side and the index finger on the top crossing over the top of
> the plane and that the relieve on the wedge was for chafing relief of the
> wrist or forearm against the wedge.  With the left hand forward of the top
> escapement.


This seems right to me, though it does seem odd.

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266077 Spike Cornelius <spikethebike@c...> 2018‑07‑11 Re: Fwd: Re: interesting French plane
Sent from the seat of my pants

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 11:37 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> Chute plane, not mitre. Mostly because of the side grip or 'push'. What was I
thinking?
> 
> Don

Bingo! Give the man a cigar!

 Spike
266079 CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> 2018‑07‑11 Re: interesting French plane
I came here to say what Don said. If you look at the carving, it extends on
one side of the plane but is flat on the other.
This image shows that it can lay flat on that side:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0978/7942/products/81369Rc_1900x.jpg

So I think it is a Mitre plane. The inlay around the mouth also suggests
(at least to me) the shape of a Bishop's Mitre. In fact, I might suggest
that it is not supposed to be a functional item, but perhaps a gift for a
Bishop who appreciated woodworking. After all, they purported to work for a
onetime Jewish carpenter.
:)
I think it is is supposed to be displayed on its side, so you see that
mouth inlay.

What makes less sense to me is that the feathers remind me of a native
American chief's headdress. If my Bishop's guess is correct, however, maybe
it is supposed to be an angel's wing(s)?

In any event, Jim has had this plane for a while. It was listed on eBay
back in 2013. It is discussed on this French forum, where the OP doubts
that it is French at all.
http:/
/www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t5599-Varlope-pas-ch-re.htm

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE



On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:

> On 2018-07-10 12:35 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
>
>> Ok this is super weird.
>>   The blade is very low angle, look how long the blade ramp is!
>>
>
> The angle made me think it could be for use as a mitre plane - a very long
> one!
>
> Don
>
> “Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
> ages.” Voltaire
>
> “A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
> re-arranging their prejudices.” William James
>
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-- 

“*The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness*”
             ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, *Earth from Above*

*- - -*

*PS... I'm always looking for darkroom equipment & supplies, old or new-ish.*
266080 james rich <jameslrich3@g...> 2018‑07‑11 Re: interesting French plane
Possibly for shooting, looks like it would work, would be nice to hold it
to see.
266082 bridger@b... 2018‑07‑11 Re: interesting French plane
On 2018-07-10 13:51, Don Schwartz wrote:
> On 2018-07-10 12:35 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
>> Ok this is super weird.
>>   The blade is very low angle, look how long the blade ramp is!
> 
> The angle made me think it could be for use as a mitre plane - a very 
> long one!
> 
> Don
> 



I think you've got it there. The scoop out of the wedge catches the heel 
of the right hand, the left hand is holding the workpiece in the 
shooting board.

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