OldTools Archive
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121572 | "egbertmr" <egbertmr@m...> | 2003‑09‑07 | Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Hi all. In my wanderings on the net, I found oldtools. It is excellent to have a direct connection with others who feel as I do about tools and wood and tools and tools. I cannot thank each and everyone of you enough for all of your knowledge, experience and polite attitudes. I especially like the opportunity to read what other think, who are older than me, (I'm 36). I feel it is my responsibility to learn as much as I can from people, who will be gone someday, so there will be a record of what they knew and stood for as craftsmen. Enough gushing. I have been reading the oldtools daily emails since May of 2001. But I have never written anything, so I will introduce myself... My name is Michael Egbert. I have been woodworking since March of 2001. My first tool was a LN 102 block plane. My second tool, much more influencial IMHO, was a book called 'Understanding Wood' by R. Bruce Hoadley. Then I read 'The Complete Guide to Sharpening' by Leonard Lee. And I kept on reading and buying hand tools. I didn't do anything but read books about woodworking and cut, plane and chisel wood for a year. My first project was a 9 in. by 9 in. by 12 in. doug fir tool box. I ripped the 2x4s by hand. I'm into the hand tool thing. Then I started building things for the shop, tables, shelves, boxes. And I began to have so many tools just laying around on tables because I didn't have any tool storage. So I looked for a big toolbox to base a design on, and I realized that I didn't have the money for materials or the skill necessary to even start. That's when I decided to have all my tools each have thier own tool box. I built a chisel cabinet, and I love it. My next cabinet is going to be a plane cabinet. I'm still working on the design, so it will be a while before it's ready to start building. Here is my question: What are some of the ways that you all use to store tools? I think it's excellent when you see a well organized set of tools and I would really like to hear if anyone has any good ideas. I know it will depend on shop size and condition and personal preferences, but I'd still like to hear about them. I wanted to tell you all something that I think you will appriciate. I live outside of Seattle in the country. There are lots of farms and large tracts of land that people use for country type things. There is a guy named Roger that owns a medieval village called Camlann just down the road from my house. Everything is done with methods and technology of medieval times. So, one day I wet. When you walk in the gate, with everybody dressed and talking like a Monty Python movie, there is this 20 ft. by 40 ft. timber-framed cottage being build in medieval ways. I start talking to the guy that was building it and he turns out to be a cabinet maker doing this as a volunteer. So I asked if I could help the next weekend and he said I should talk to Roger, the owner. Roger told me I could help, but the tools must be of the times. He chopped the date off a 1550. So I looked at the type of construction they were using, (big massive mortise and tenons), and bought a mortising ax and a 2 in. socket slick from Henry Taylor. We worked all day and the weekends to come and we managed to cut and fit 10 rafters, and a large crossbeam (8x8). Very hard work, but the morticing ax was the tool to use. We only had bow saws, so the sawing was pretty rough. If I had had a ryoba or a good Disston, it would have been much easier. The only tool that I couldn't find, that would have been right on the money regarding the timesframe, was the tweebil. They are not made and the only ones that I know of that exist are artifacts in museums. Anybody know anything about tweebils? Anyway, it was a great time and I thought about the list while I was working. I recently finished my first fine cabinet. It's a Single Malt Scotch cabinet. If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at: http://michaelegbert.net/Woodworking/WoodworkingHome.htm I will use my page as my bio and send links when it is updated. Thanks, Michael |
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121576 | Jim Thompson <jdthompsonca@s...> | 2003‑09‑07 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
You are definitely my kind of people: old tools AND Single Malt Scotch!!?? It doesn't get any better than that! Welcome aboard. On Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 02:11 AM, egbertmr wrote: > > I recently finished my first fine cabinet. It's a Single Malt Scotch > cabinet. If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at: > > http://michaelegbert.net/Woodworking/WoodworkingHome.htm Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA |
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121579 | reeinelson@w... (Bob Nelson) | 2003‑09‑07 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Hi Michael & All, Welcome aboard! Re your question about the "tweebil". AFAIK, you're right that they aren't being made any more. Old ones can be found in antique tool circles, but they're usually pretty pricey. One problem with looking for them on ebay or such might be that the name is spelled multiple ways - your way being one I can't recall seeing before. Try "twybill", "twivel", "twibill", etc. FYI, there are three fairly distinctly different types - only one of which I assume you'd want for your purpose. That's the Germanic or PA Dutch style - quite sturdy and with a handle for chopping with the blades aimed different directions on each end of the head. This is the type that's most commonly seen in old paintings and other such artwork from the 1500s or so and would indeed be appropriate for use in Roger's village. There's another French style that's much longer with what looks like a socket for a wood handle but is the total handle; it's used like a chisel and the blade ends are just pushed and pried with that handle - not chopped. The third is a hurdlemaker's type that's smaller and lighter than the Germanic style and only used to make light weight fencing. Don McConnell and I tried to do some research recently that included, among other things, some aspects of using a twybill - but we have seemed to run into nothing but dead ends that are grinding that to a halt. Best Wishes, Bob |
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121613 | "Steve from Kokomo" <stjones@k...> | 2003‑09‑07 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
egbertmr said: > Hi all. > I recently finished my first fine cabinet. It's a Single Malt Scotch > cabinet. If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at: Greetings, Michael, and welcome to the Porch. A very nicely done and very worthy project indeed. I might make one sometime, though mine will be much smaller. I just need room for the staples - Laphroaig and Dalmore - and the odd visitor now and then. A worthwhile way to use a small batch of really special wood. Steve - another Kokomo galoot |
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121617 | "Michael D. Sullivan" <oldtools@c...> | 2003‑09‑08 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:00:06 -0400 (EDT), Steve from Kokomo wrote: >egbertmr said: >> Hi all. > >> I recently finished my first fine cabinet. It's a Single Malt Scotch >> cabinet. If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at: > >Greetings, Michael, and welcome to the Porch. A very nicely done and very >worthy project indeed. I might make one sometime, though mine will be much >smaller. I just need room for the staples - Laphroaig and Dalmore - and >the odd visitor now and then. A worthwhile way to use a small batch of >really special wood. Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste. On the bottom row, he shows a bottle of Talisker. Since you appreciate Laphroaig, you would undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, highly appealing. It's my only "staple" SMS. It's sort of like Walnut or English Oak: Once you've worked with it and discovered its advantages, you won't really want to go back to the usual stuff. OT content: it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in oaken barrels. A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very enjoyable. Michael D. Sullivan Bethesda, MD (USA) |
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121624 | "Richard J. Hucker" <colhuck@n...> | 2003‑09‑08 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Michael D. Sullivan said: > Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste. On the bottom row, > he shows a bottle of Talisker. Since you appreciate Laphroaig, you would > undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, highly appealing. > > OT content: it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in oaken > barrels. A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very enjoyable. > > Michael D. Sullivan > Bethesda, MD (USA) Michael: I'm not sure just how much a wee dram is and I didn't have a proper unit fo mesurement. But from now on id will be (hic) a standarrd tool in myy shop#. I do ag7gee tht a wee draam hear andthere (hic) maks the (burp) plannning go verry smoooth. Ad least id sems (hic)0 thad way. I fugered a dram is @bout like a pint. So a cople of dem (hic) made foe^ v$erry a meerry time int the shpp. I thind htt thissuggestion3 shud (hic) be addedd to gree Q&A in he (hic) arcives. thans fo the tipp .have a g*ate day. (hic) I gh%- and RU$*. fo now. Regards, Col. Dick Hucker (getting good at making curly (hic) toothpicks > Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ > To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface: > http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools |
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121622 | "Steve from Kokomo" <stjones@k...> | 2003‑09‑08 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Michael D. Sullivan said: > Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste. On the > bottom row, he shows a bottle of Talisker. Since you appreciate > Laphroaig, you would undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, > highly appealing. It's my only "staple" SMS. It's sort of like Walnut > or English Oak: Once you've worked with it and discovered its > advantages, you won't really want to go back to the usual stuff. > > OT content: it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in > oaken barrels. A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very > enjoyable. Indeed I did notice the Talisker which I know only by reputation. I didn't want to appear more erudite than I am because I haven't yet talked myself into the investment - equivalent to the Scottish plow plane (plough, Jeff) that I bought at the last LFOD auction in Indy. It's a choice that no one should be forced to make - an old tool (more likely several) or a bottle of Talisker. But one of these days.... OT content: Scotch - whiskey and planes. Steve - another Kokomo galoot |
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121641 | "Lawrence H. Smith" <lsmith@s...> | 2003‑09‑08 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
>Hi Michael & All, > >Welcome aboard! Re your question about the "tweebil". AFAIK, you're >right that they aren't being made any more. Old ones can be found in >antique tool circles, but they're usually pretty pricey. I see no reason a smith couldn't make you one up. Might also be pricey, depending, but the fact that you can't get one at Ace or True Value does not mean you can't get one at all. I'd be surprised if there isn't a smith associated with Camlann. The smith is an important guy in the 15th century, and he's important because he makes things other people need to get stuff done. For storage, there are several things, but I can't claim to have it all sorted out. I like rolls for augers and chisels - portable, can be hung up or laid out to work with. I'm really fond of well fitted cases and boxes, but have found it difficult to get going on my own (what if I add another thingus to this logical group? What groups are logical? Where to start? etc...) As for OT SMS, 18 year old Macallan aged in sherry casks is my preference, and has been since before I was 30. You folks are welcome to the heavily burnt peat malts. I see a 12 year old Macallan on the shelf, but I can't read the fine print on it. As far as I recall, the 12 year old is no longer available in sherry wood (or the sherry wood is no longer available in 12 year old, as you prefer). It was fine when it was, but at some point only the 18 year old stuff was available with that particular variant. -- -Lawrence H Smith, Librarian/Computarian for Buxton School and Woodworker -lsmith@s... Cats, Coffee, Chocolate... Vices to live by. |
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121654 | "Ken Greenberg" <ken@c...> | 2003‑09‑09 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
On 9 Sep 2003 at 10:43, Bob Nelson wrote: > MORAL; Start drinking single malt as soon as you're able - the heck with > this wait until you're over 40 concept. I thought the only rule was you had to be older than the Scotch. Anyway, with respect to the original question on tool storage, "philosophy" is definitely an appropriate word. I suspect the only thing many would agree on is that The Toolbox Book is a really good place to start, as it presents many choices. You get to review a number of alternatives that may not yet have occurred to you, and try to match one to your chosen methods of work and what you are building. Also, your working set of tools (with room for expansion, of course) is likely to drive a number of decisions. For me, I have gravitated to the following, but am still flexible enough to change as the shop planning continues. There's a bunch of boards that used to be a friend's redwood fence (reuse instead of cutting down new trees) out behind the pump house, and I am arranging them on the ground in many interesting ways these days. 1) I like to keep my bench planes under my bench, because I use them a great deal. 2) Specialty planes now live in the new glass-front cabinet, so I can see where they are and yet keep the dust off of them. 3) Wooden moulding planes have their own cabinet, although many folks like tool chests for this. 4) Saws belong in a saw till, rather than hanging on walls as in my shop. These days I use my backsaws more than ever, and I am thinking of finding a way to keep them closer to my bench. If the saw till is too far away when I get around to building it, I may need another alternative to keep them handy, at least the two or three that get daily use. 5) Long skinny things probably belong in drawers. This includes chisels, even though mine hang on the wall in a shop-made rack. The good news with respect to the rack is that they are handy (again, close to the bench is good) and you can look at them all in a single glance to pick out the right size. The bad news is that they used to fall out once in a while, and there is a risk of damage or at least painful retrieval. I have seen shops where the chisels were in drawers and it looked quite appealing. I could live with it. Bitstock likely should be in drawers if you've got the room (bit blocks are OK if you don't have a great deal like I do). And I want my marking and measuring stuff to be in a drawer some day, rather than the cool but not overly protective cigar box they live in now. I had a wall mounted rack for files in my old shop, but it was poorly designed and they tended to end up on the floor while reaching for something above them. Not as serious a problem as with chisels, but still a bad thing. Files and rasps in a drawer? Maybe, I have not figured that one out yet. 6) Some things just naturally seem to hang on the walls, like braces and eggbeater drills. As you can tell, I don't gravitate towards a large "one size holds everything" type of tool storage solution, even though my tool acquisition has slowed down quite a bit these days. There clearly are beautiful and useful tool cabinets out there that do follow this route, just as for some folks a tool chest is the most comfortable way to work. -Ken Ken Greenberg (ken@c...) 667 Brush Creek Road, Santa Rosa, CA 95404 woodworking page: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm |
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121653 | "Steve from Kokomo" <stjones@k...> | 2003‑09‑09 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Bob Nelson said: > MORAL; Start drinking single malt as soon as you're able - the heck with > this wait until you're over 40 concept. And the cost will serve as deterrent to swilling it down and getting plastered. Drink less and enjoy it more - a sure road to moderation. OT Content: Moderation can be applied to the acquisition of old tools too, though I don't personally recommend it. ;^) Steve - another Kokomo galoot |
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121669 | JTWad@a... | 2003‑09‑09 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Galooterati, My storage solutions include (inter alia) five recycled items: 1. The mail sorter pigeonholes from a nearby town's post office--56 openings in a 7X8 grid, each about 4X7 inches and over a foot deep. This holds planes of many types. It sits atop-- 2. A set of old barber's cabinets--three drawers on top and six flip- down doors below (where the towels used to go, I imagine). Thes hold a miscellany of bulkier stuff--plow planes, things in boxes, and so on. 3. An old specimen cabinet discarded by the natural history museum the LOML used to work for--waist-high, two ranks of ten drawers. Holds flat or long-and-skinny stuff--chisels, files, bits, shoulder planes, layout tools. On top of this are two Gerstner toolchests-- but they're not recycled. 4&5. Two discarded library card catalogue stacks, each with 15 drawers. The card guide hardware has been removed and the slots in the bottoms covered with lauan plywood recycled from some cheap sliding doors (formerly on the base cabinets in our garden shed). These hold hardware, mostly. While the first three items are unique, the card catalogues are easy to pick up at fleas and anteek mauls--the libraries are all going to electronic cataloguing. Clearly, I need to make an inspired find to convert to a saw till or I'll actually have to (shudder) _make_ something... John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY |
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121685 | "Michael Egbert" <egbertmr@m...> | 2003‑09‑10 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
>>>Try "twybill", "twivel", "twibill", etc Thank you all for the compliments and comments. Here is what Sloan says about the twibil: '... all two-bitted hatchets might have been at some time called 'twin-bills,' 'twibils,' or 'twivels.' Still used in England (England, Jeff) to cut hurdle mortises, the twivel there is called 'tomyhawk,' 'dader,' or 'two-bill.' ' Apperantly, the twivel was never struck with a mallot, only used as a chopping tool. I don't htink that it would have been very accurate unless you used it everyday and were some kind of mortice hacking lord. I used a morticing ax to great effect by lining it up cross-grain on the mortice outline, then giving it a whack with a modified dogwood froe hammer on both sides. Then, I would cut along the grain to finish the outline of the mortice. Then I would make cuts along the grain spaced about 3/4 in. apart, going in at a 45 deg. angle to the surface of the wood. After each cut, I would slightly lever the ax with a froe-like action. The wood came out in pieces 3/4 in. square and 6 in. long. They stacked up so quick it looked like french, err sorry, freedom fries. (Is that still the officail name of fried potatoes?) The key was to cut the cross grain and let the lever action create the failure at the weakest point of the grain bond. I know it may seem like I over analysized this, but there's not much else to do when you are cutting dozens of massive mortices. The only saving grace was that the wood was doug fir. Small blessings. Camlann does have a blacksmith. They also have the following: Knights swign real swords at each other, an armorsmith, a boyer, a jongler (spelling?), apple press (that was cool), thespians, and a medieval banquet. I talked with the blacksmith about doing some pulls for future cabinet and he was willing, and the costs were high, but reasonable all things considered. He also told me about a butchers wax finish on iron. Very interesting. They are planning to build a forge in the future. That will be great. Michael |
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121722 | "Stephen M. Lineback" <stevelineback@c...> | 2003‑09‑10 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
If this group applies the same "moderation" to single malt that we do to rust hunting we'll need our own AA chapter. Steve Who finds being broke or in his wifes presence the only source or moderation either way |
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121727 | TomPrice@a... | 2003‑09‑11 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Steve Lineback wrote: >If this group applies the same "moderation" to single malt that we do to >rust hunting we'll need our own AA chapter. >Steve >Who finds being broke or in his wifes presence the only source or >moderation either way Single malts still taste like peat flavored Listerine to me but otherwise the Support Group From Hell is, with the collective ingenuity of countless Porch denizens, here to help you fully live the Galoot Experience. Yes, we're here to help you rationalize that next tool purchase, give you tips on haggling for flea market and garage sale bargains, and the best techniques for getting the new acquisition out of the Mobile Solar Kiln and into the basement or garage past the skeptical eyes of your Significant Other. We're here to give you tips on Cubicle or Office Woodworking without getting caught by the Powers That Be and Wound Management techniques when those inevitable 'Uh-Ohs' strike at work or home. Plus how to get blood off of your half-completed projects or the best choice of stains and glazes to disguise the spatter patterns if it sets up before your return from the Urgent Care Center. We're here to provide you with an unending series of Internet links to *bay auctions, new tool sources, pictures of 'whatsits', and jpegs of our recent finds. You won't actually have to spend another minute woodworking again as all of your spare moments can be spent on hunting new tools, getting them into the house, cleaning them up, sharpening them, cutting yourself with them, telling us about them and reading about the experiences of other Porch dwellers. If you do have an overwhelming urge to actually use your tools, we're here to give you pages of contradictory advice on bench selection and construction as well as bench dogs. Yes, bench dogs, round or square? Plus endless and entertaining discussion of toolchest construction and placement. We're here to teach you the Art of the Gloat. Soon you too will be writing long rambling accounts of your flea market and garage sale forays where you found rare and sought after tools for less than the price of fast-food combo meals. We'll teach you the art of Drive-by Gloating by sprinkling accounts of rare tool acquisition in your discourse on other topics and posting jpegs of your recent finds with other 'hot' tools innocently placed in the background, just slightly out of focus. Or posting in-your-face jpegs of toolchests stuffed with gleaming tools while ostensibly demonstrating some arcane construction technique. We're here to fling you down that Slippery Slope and to give you additional velocity when it looks like you might be slowing down. The Support Group From Hell. Serving countless Galoots since late 1995. **************************** Tom Price (TomPrice@a...) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html |
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121730 | Larry Marshall <larrym@s...> | 2003‑09‑11 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
> We're here to fling you down that Slippery Slope and to give you > additional velocity when it looks like you might be slowing down. Yippee!!!!! I do say that in my most dignified voice, however. --- Cheers --- Larry Marshall Quebec City, QC |
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121747 | "Michael D. Sullivan" <oldtools@c...> | 2003‑09‑11 | Re: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:07:31 EDT, TomPrice@a... wrote: >Single malts still taste like peat flavored Listerine to me but otherwise >the Support Group From Hell is, with the collective ingenuity of >countless Porch denizens, here to help you fully live the Galoot >Experience. Mmmm! Peat flavored Listerine! SMOKED peat flavored Listerine! Goooood! Now THAT's a Galoot Experience! Glad you like it, Tom. Michael D. Sullivan Bethesda, MD (USA) |
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127237 | "Peter McBride" <pjmcbride@o...> | 2004‑01‑09 | RE: Introduction and Tool Storage philosophy question. |
Welcome Michael, Sorry to take a few days to welcome you...I was stuck in a ring posting frenzy. That medieval stuff sounds like more than enough fun for one person to have. Your cabinet has my type of contents, well done. This was 2 years ago in Scotland. http://www.petermcbride.com/Glenturret01.jpg That is me with my Scottish friend Kevin, he has the hair. Have a look at what my daughter gave me for Christmas http://www.petermcbride.com/nice.jpg Now the for the Oldtool content...I am risking an off-topic single malt posting frenzy! |
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