OldTools Archive
Recent | Bios | FAQ |
272926 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑05 | Future of the List |
GG's, I've been maintaining the OldTools List on my server since 2015 when I took over from Cornell Law School, who had been hosting it. The time has come for me to step down and turn the List over to someone else. That could be another member who has experience with mailing list software, or a commercial service. After doing this for six years, I recommend a commercial service. Thoughts, volunteers? Cheers, Chris -- Christopher Swingley Fairbanks, Alaska https://swingley.org/ |
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272928 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑03‑05 | Re: Future of the List |
Chris I am not capable of doing the innerwebs thing, but I really appreciate you for taking this on for as long as you have. Ed Minch |
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272932 | Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
On 6/03/2021 1:26 am, Christopher Swingley wrote: > I've been maintaining the OldTools List on my server since 2015 when I took > over from Cornell Law School, who had been hosting it. The time has come > for me to step down and turn the List over to someone else. That could be > another member who has experience with mailing list software, or a > commercial service. After doing this for six years, I recommend a > commercial service. Thank you Chris for all you have done for those six years. As a regular reader (and occasional writer) I have enjoyed the conversations here, and appreciate the way this mailing list has supported our good-humoured intercourse. Your setting up and hosting of the list, along with its searchable archive, and all the work to administer it, are hidden contributions we all benefit from. Some other lists I belong to have recently transferred to the groups.io commercial service, which seems to work well. I'd be happy to throw a few dollars into the collection plate to make the transition to a paid service, if nobody offers to do what Chris has done. (And, in case anyone suggests changing over to some kind of web forum instead of the mailing list format, let me say I would prefer not to do that.) -- Peter Marquis-Kyle www.marquis-kyle.com.au |
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272934 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 at 04:26, Christopher Swingley |
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272935 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Peter, On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:11 PM Peter Marquis-Kyle |
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272936 | Tony Blanks <dynnyrne@i...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
On 6/03/2021 2:08 pm, Christopher Swingley wrote in part (snip) > Thanks. Agree about groups.io. At least one of the old listserv lists I > belong to has switched to that service as well. It wouldn't be cheap, > though. We've got around 1,100 subscribers (probably 20-30% have been > bounced out), which would wind up being around $40/month. > > Cheers, > > Chris First of all, my sincere thanks to you Chris for keeping the list operating. I have learned a great deal from people I met here As for the cost of moving to groups.io, well, if only a quarter of our subscribers contributed that would be around two US dollars a year per contributor. Not a great deal compared to a magazine subscription for access to the knowledge and humour of the active participants. I'd be happy to pay that, albeit coming from Aus the currency conversion cost would be more than the sub. I'd probably just pay 10 years in advance so that I didn't need to remember to do it every year! But I'm afraid I know nothing about list server software nor maintenance, nor groups.io, so I'm afraid Chris that I can't help with the practical end of things. Just my 2 cents' worth. But, Thanks again, Tony B Hobart, Tasmania |
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272937 | "Joseph Holsten" <joseph@j...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
I’ve been a system administrator since the 1990s, and groups.io sounds a lot more fun than maintaining mailman, its website, mail services, backups, etc. I’ve also seen a few mailing lists switch to https://discourse.org/">https://discourse.org/ and I quite enjoy it. The main advantage is people who like mailing groups can access it through email, but folks who prefer forums need never leave their browser (or mobile app). Archives import is available: https://meta.discourse.org/t /migrating-to-discourse-from-another-forum- software/16616">https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-to-discourse-from- another-forum-software/16616 If that’s interesting to anyone, I would be interested in hosting discourse. I’ve done the community leadership thing in the past so I’d also get our infrastructure set up so we could easily hand it off if I get hit by a bus. Either way, we should probably set up something like https://opencollective.com/">https://opencollective.com/ to allow members to easily donate and have the operator use that money for expenses. -- Joseph Holsten http://josephholsten.com mailto:joseph@j... tel:+1-360-927-7234 |
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272938 | "Joseph Holsten" <joseph@j...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Oh and I don’t know about you, but I’ve wanted a galoots wiki for ages, especially to host tool identification guides, old catalogs, etc. If we host one, we should host the other, or neither. -- Joseph Holsten http://josephholsten.com mailto:joseph@j... tel:+1-360-927-7234 |
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272939 | Bob Page | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Joseph, Mark Stansbury has already taken on the task of collecting together nearly 5500 tool catalogs and other publications into a searchable archive. In fact, he has done such a great job that it was one of the reasons stated by the Mid-West Tool Collectors Association for ending their costly annual reprint program. https://archive.org/details/internationaltoolcataloglibrary Bob Page In da U.P. of Michigan On Saturday, March 6, 2021, 03:05:15 AM EST, Joseph Holsten |
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272941 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Well here we go again. A long standing casual gathering of good natured people sharing their lives. Caring about each other, helping each other. We've been through an awful lot. And somewhere, lost in an archive nobody ever reads, is part of my life's work. Learning struggling accomplishing sharing and teaching. Trying to encourage all of us to go out on a limb and tackle the seemingly impossible. Always on the lookout for new talent wherever it appears, and nourishing it however I can. Watching the long view and trying to steer it toward good. Forever fighting to blunt the forces of greed. One day, maybe soon, the button will be pushed and blink, gone without even a memory. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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272943 | Kevin Foley <kevin.m.foley@c...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Scott said: "lost in an archive nobody ever reads, is part of my life's work." I read the archive. I read your stuff. I’ve got your webpage http://u sers.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/">http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandst aff/ bookmarked! Kevin in Chantilly. The other one. The one in Virginia. |
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272944 | Zachary Dillinger <zacharydillinger@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
I can honestly say that I would not be as far along my path had I not been told about the list and, Scott, you've been an inspiration to me since day one. That archive is truly a treasure. All that said, I decidedly lack the technical skills to make the list work, but I can help fund the transition. If someone is able to handle the tech, I will front the dough to make it happen. Chris, thank you for your service! Zachary Dillinger 517-231-3374 |
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272945 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
GG's, The Archive isn't going anywhere, at least not for now. I'd just like the list hosting off my server. I'm happy to continue archiving posts as they come in, and being ListMom to the list, wherever it winds up. My personal opinion is that we should move to a commercial service like groups.io and set up some sort of donation site so we can keep it running. Cheers, Chris -- Christopher Swingley Fairbanks, Alaska https://swingley.org/ |
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272946 | Chuck Taylor | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Chris wrote: ==== My personal opinion is that we should move to a commercial service like groups.io and set up some sort of donation site so we can keep it running. ==== I second the motion. Chris says groups.io would cost about $40/month. That's $480/year. If just 48 of the 1100 subscribers would pony up $10/year, we've got it covered. Kind of like the public radio/public TV model. Everybody doesn't need to pay, but if enough people pay what they can, we're good. Count me in! Chuck Taylornorth of Seattle USA |
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272947 | Bill Ghio | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
> On Mar 6, 2021, at 1:43 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools |
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272949 | "Dennis Heyza" <michigaloot@c...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
I've been hanging around here since June, 1996 though work and personal demands have kept participation to a minimum for a long time. That said, I consider the List (Porch) to be of immense value and hope to jump in more since I retired at the end of last year. Count me in for a donation. Dennis Heyza New Baltimore MI -----Original Message----- From: OldTools |
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272951 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
GGs, OK, I think we have the beginnings of a plan. I propose we migrate the List to groups.io, and set up an opencollective for collecting donations ( https://docs.opencollective.com/help/about/introduction). I think the advantage of using opencollective (or something similar) by comparison to GoFundMe or direct PayPal payments to a person is that there's more accountability and long term stability. I am happy to set up the group and migrate subscriber information, etc., to groups.io, and I have started setting up a donation site (https://opencollective.com/oldtools-list). How does that sound to the assembled? Any issues anyone sees with groups.io or opencollective? Cheers, Chris -- Christopher Swingley Fairbanks, Alaska https://swingley.org/ |
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272952 | gtgrouch@r... | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Apparently the open collective entity is pending approval. We can't donate yet. Thanks Chris! -----------------------------------------From: "Christopher Swingley" To: "Bill Ghio" Cc: "OldTools List" Sent: Saturday March 6 2021 2:47:57PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Future of the List GGs, OK, I think we have the beginnings of a plan. I propose we migrate the List to groups.io, and set up an opencollective for collecting donations ( https://docs.opencollective.com/help/about/introduction). [1] I think the advantage of using opencollective (or something similar) by comparison to GoFundMe or direct PayPal payments to a person is that there's more accountability and long term stability. I am happy to set up the group and migrate subscriber information, etc., to groups.io, and I have started setting up a donation site (https://opencollective.com/oldtools-list). /> How does that sound to the assembled? Any issues anyone sees with groups.io or opencollective? Cheers, Chris -- Christopher Swingley Fairbanks, Alaska https://swingley.org/ /> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. To change your subscription options: https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools /> To read the FAQ: https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html /> OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/ /> OldTools@s... Links: ------ [1] https://docs.opencollective.com/help/about/introduction). |
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272953 | Spike Cornelius <spikethebike@c...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
How does that sound to the assembled? Any issues anyone sees with groups.io or opencollective? I dunno, sounds kinda communist to me! ;>} Sent from my refuge |
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272954 | Tony Zaffuto <tzmti@c...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Don’t post much, but I read every day. Chris’s suggestion looks like just the ticket and doubly so, for those of us that have aversion to many social medium based sites! When will the donation window open? Will any be shut out if they do not donate (i’m thinking in terms of many that don’t have much? I Cold in Western, PA, along with a sore arm from my second COVID vaccination (too sore to hold a chisel earlier, but not too sore to pick-up a fork). T.Z. Anthony M. Zaffuto, President Metaltech, Inc. 3547 Watson Hwy. DuBois, PA. 15801 www.metaltech-pm.com (814) 375-9399 (814) 541-5019 (cell) |
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272955 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Tony, On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:00 AM Tony Zaffuto |
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272957 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
> On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Bill Ghio via OldTools |
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272958 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
The spirit of the list would dictate voluntary donations. I think we are in danger of giving enough that Chris could vacation abroad iof he so chose Ed Minch |
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272960 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
I'm in. Don On 2021-03-06 11:43 a.m., Chuck Taylor via OldTools wrote: > Chris wrote: > > ==== > My personal opinion is that we should move to a commercial service like > groups.io and set up some sort of donation site so we can keep it running. > ==== > I second the motion. Chris says groups.io would cost about $40/month. That's $480/year. If just 48 of the 1100 subscribers would pony up $10/year, we've got it covered. Kind of like the public radio/public TV model. Everybody doesn't need to pay, but if enough people pay what they can, we're good. Count me in! > Chuck Taylornorth of Seattle USA > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/ > > OldTools@s... -- "A more infectious virus is more dangerous than a more lethal one." - Christian Drosten, virologist Go early, and go hard. Go to zero. "It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have." - James Baldwin |
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272961 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
One of those open-membership bands - 'The Bunch' et al! Don On 2021-03-06 12:59 p.m., Spike Cornelius wrote: > How does that sound to the assembled? Any issues anyone sees with groups.io > or opencollective? > > I dunno, sounds kinda communist to me! ;>} > > > Sent from my refuge > >> On Mar 6, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Christopher Swingley |
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272962 | Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
I’ve been preparing for this moment for years. Designing a solution that please only part of us. Crafting a pitch that alienates half of you. Pondering a new system that accomplishes less, costs more, and most egregiously removes Scott Grandstaff’s life work. It’s what I do. I’m THRILLED to see that I can now scrap all of these plans. You fellers are way ahead of me. Nice. Return to defcon 5 Matthew Groves Springfield, MO |
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272965 | Phil Edgerton <pedgerton66@g...> | 2021‑03‑06 | Re: Future of the List |
Me too too as well. Phil E. On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 4:16 PM Matthew Groves |
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272968 | "Eric Coyle" <ecoyle@t...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: future of the list |
The makerspace I belong to has used google groups adinfinitum. As far as I know there is no cost. Apparently it can be moderated, members vetted, banned and all that stuff. The only drawback I can see is how google is taking over the world! Zoom meeting tonight. Wanna bet this topic comes up? Eric |
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272969 | gary may | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
Gentle Galoots: Will I pony up to keep in contact with the world's galoots? Oww!---sprained my shoulder grabbing for my wallet---again. It's a chronic bargain-related injury. As Darryl Six says about the Pacific Northwest Tool Collectors: 'We have experts in every tool and every historical trade right here in one place, and it doesn't cost a nickel to talk to any of them!' Actually, though, it costs $20 annually to be a member of the PNTC and it's a *screaming* bargain; so what ever it costs to move the Porch, I will happily pay. I'm gonna go re-read Chuck Taylor's post which is pretty well said.... Big question is, what can we do for Chris Swingley? I know that I have only just realized how much he's done for us, and especially me in the past 6 years. If it were just me deciding, I'd commission a gold pocket watch. A few bucks per galoot goes a long way, even these days. all the best to all galoots, everywhere; gam in OlyWA/USA How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen On Saturday, March 6, 2021, 11:01:21 AM PST, Bill Ghio via OldTools |
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272970 | "Joseph Holsten" <joseph@j...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
That’s really exciting! I’ve been wanting a catalog index for some other interests of mine, fountain pens and razors. Now I have a direction to steer toward! I should have known archive.org was involved in this sort of awesome. -- Joseph Holsten |
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272971 | "Joseph Holsten" <joseph@j...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
As far as I understand, to be hosted by the open collective foundation we would need to be working toward public education or public good. So if we go with opencollective, we’re committing to keeping this list open to the public. If we wanted to close the list or have extra benefits for donors, we should probably go with patreon. -- Joseph Holsten |
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272972 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
Joseph, On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 3:52 PM Joseph Holsten |
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272973 | Kirk Eppler | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
Wow, ignore the oldtools list for a few days (Ok, maybe hours), and all kinds of mayhem breaks loose. As always, it looks like Chris is looking out for us again! Thank you sir for all the efforts over the past few years, keeping us on the straight and narrow, well archived, in communication when our ISP’s foul up, and all that good stuff. I am going to defer to your wisdom of choice on wherever you suggest, and kick in a few bucks up front, (and maybe we can host an annual fund drive, like NPR, where the happy camper puts on a demo of something we are all dying to know, and pauses every few minutes to remind us to donate to support the archiving of all the knowledge that has accumulated here over the years.) Knowing the generosity of Galoots, I’m not too worried about that. Wonder if the site will accept excess chisels and mitre boxes.... Kirk in Half Moon Bay, who opened a box from House Handle today, and fitted four on this lazy summer afternoon in mid March On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:26 AM Christopher Swingley |
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272974 | "K. W. Landry" <kwlandry@g...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
I'm in as well, and although Chris has already noted groups.io has a contribution mechanism, I would argue that the list provides exactly the criteria of public good and public education required for opencollective, On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 7:55 PM Christopher Swingley |
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272975 | David Sobel | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
Huh? What? I didn’t receive any list mail the last few days. Turns out it was going to my junk mail folder. Started doing that right before Chris’ original message. By the time I first learned that there were necessary changes coming, you guys already had it figured out. Count me in for contributing. Thanks to Chris for everything. David Sobel |
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272976 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 at 13:55, Christopher Swingley |
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272977 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: Future of the List |
On 2021-03-06 6:23 p.m., K. W. Landry wrote: > I'm in as well, and although Chris has already noted groups.io has a > contribution mechanism, I would argue that the list provides exactly the > criteria of public good and public education required for opencollective, > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 7:55 PM Christopher Swingley |
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272978 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: future of the list |
I don't trust Google with anything. Don On 2021-03-06 5:28 p.m., Eric Coyle wrote: > The makerspace I belong to has used google groups adinfinitum. As far as I > know there is no cost. Apparently it can be moderated, members vetted, > banned and all that stuff. The only drawback I can see is how google is > taking over the world! > > > > Zoom meeting tonight. Wanna bet this topic comes up? > > > > Eric > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/ > > OldTools@s... -- "A more infectious virus is more dangerous than a more lethal one." - Christian Drosten, virologist Go early, and go hard. Go to zero. "It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have." - James Baldwin |
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272985 | "Joseph Holsten" <joseph@j...> | 2021‑03‑07 | Re: future of the list |
I only trust them when I’m paying them. We could use Google Workspace (formerly G Suite, Google Apps for your domain), and I’ve done that to have email hosting for people at a domain. But that’s not the kind of mailing list we want here. Groups.io would be much cheaper anyway. -- Joseph Holsten |
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273032 | james rich <jameslrich3@g...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Future of the List |
I have been here , silently , since the beginning or close to it. I dont speak much at all but I have learned just about everything here and not just hand tools ! I am absolutely not capable of hosting a Mail List , but It would be devastating to lose the list . I am in for whatever changes need to be made to keep this here lectronic thingy going. I went to the donation site and was unable to donate , but certainly will . On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:47 AM Christopher Swingley |
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273033 | "Dennis Heyza" <michigaloot@c...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Future of the List |
It appears the group has not been approved yet? -----Original Message----- From: OldTools |
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273040 | Chuck Taylor | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
Dennis, You wrote: ====snip==== Thanks for the info, Chris. When I went to the page this morning there was a “not approved” message in the banner. ====end snip==== The link in Chris's email had an extra "," at the end, courtesy of the email software. Try https://groups.io/g/oldtools Works for me. You need to have your login and password set up before you can donate. --- Cheers, Chuck Taylor north of Seattle USA |
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273041 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
GGs, On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 10:04 AM Chuck Taylor |
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273043 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
> On Mar 12, 2021, at 1:24 PM, Dennis Heyza |
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273044 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
Ed, On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 11:20 AM Ed Minch |
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273046 | Tony Zaffuto <tzmti@c...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
So what is the recommended amount? T Anthony M. Zaffuto, President Metaltech, Inc. 3547 Watson Hwy. DuBois, PA. 15801 www.metaltech-pm.com (814) 375-9399 (814) 541-5019 (cell) |
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273047 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
Tony, On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:36 PM Tony Zaffuto |
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273048 | Tony Zaffuto <tzmti@c...> | 2021‑03‑12 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
I’ll belly up with extra, to help cover those that can’t. T Anthony M. Zaffuto, President Metaltech, Inc. 3547 Watson Hwy. DuBois, PA. 15801 www.metaltech-pm.com (814) 375-9399 (814) 541-5019 (cell) |
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273054 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2021‑03‑13 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
I will confidently predict an over subscription! Mick Dowling |
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273057 | Chuck Taylor | 2021‑03‑13 | Re: Administrivia: List Migration Information |
Tony asked: ==== > So what is the recommended amount? ==== and Chris responded: ==== That's a hard question to answer. ... Put in what it's worth to you and what you can afford. If that's nothing for whatever reason, so be it. ... Once the dust settles on the transition/sponsorship I'll send an email to the List letting everyone know what's in the kitty and how long that'll last.... ==== First, besides our thanks for all his efforts on our behalf, I think we owe Chris some slack while he spends his weekend migrating the list. Please, no more questions that require a response from Chris until the dust settles! Second, I suggest $10 for an initial donation (once the dust settles) for those who are so inclined. I figure $10 is enough to make it worthwhile yet not so much as to be a burden to most folks. Chris says that excess donations will carry over, so instead of making it an annual donation, why not just wait until the next call for donations when the kitty runs low, however long that takes? Cheers, Chuck Taylor getting ready to Spring forward north of Seattle USA |
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